Real Talk: Adapting at the Speed of Change

Kyle Hollaway:

Yeah, well, why don’t you give our listeners a little bit of background on you and your journey here to Acxiom.

John Watkins:

Yeah, my career journey’s gone over a couple of decades. I’ve been here on my Acxiom journey only about six months, and certainly it’s been a very fun, very eventful time. I spent about 15 years at Merkle and a number of different leadership roles, of the last year or so, I was the global transformation leader bringing 30 plus agencies together under the Merkle umbrella within Dentsu, and then was spent many years as Merkle’s COO and technology leader. And before that, I started out on the small company side, data licensing many moons ago, and so anyway, it’s been an interesting journey thus far.

Kyle Hollaway:

Yeah, absolutely, and certainly the experience that you had with the large holding company with a data identity and services business, and now having that with Acxiom, interesting convergence there.

John Watkins:

Yeah, absolutely. Certainly again, I’ve already said it four or five times in the last few minutes, but the journey that we’re on, and it’s certainly one that you learn in working within a holding company and how those relationships work across sister agencies, especially something the size and scale of IPG. So it’s, you learn something new almost every day, frequently.

Dustin Raney:

Yeah. John, speaking of holding companies, we’re obviously part of one of the big holding companies in IPG. Since being here at Acxiom, we are required essentially to be that kind of data and technology layer in the overall stack within the agency. Where do you feel like we are in that journey, as far as adoption and just being at that eutopic point where we’re delivering on the expectation?

John Watkins:

Since the acquisition about five and a half years ago, quite frankly, it’s been slow. I think we’ve made great progress in the last 60, 75 days, but I think we’re going to see the momentum only increase. So really excited about that, especially when you think of the opportunity we have with the 80-plus agencies across IPG of how we really become the data and technology layer, especially even when you think about the new opportunity we just signed with Adobe and really at the ad tech intersection of media and creative, powered by data and identity. So you think about creative campaigns for big brand and they could have thousands of different creatives, and it can be tailored in a hundredth of a millisecond tied to Acxiom’s reach data and identity tools and solutions. It’s super exciting. So I think we’re only going to see more and more of that very quickly.

Kyle Hollaway:

Yeah, awesome. So take a moment just to be maybe a little reflective of the industry.

John Watkins:

Sure.

Kyle Hollaway:

So where we’ve been even a decade ago or even just five years ago to where we are today and where you see Acxiom going. What is your thought on that?

John Watkins:

Yeah, as I really think about really the last 15 years in the marketing ecosystem, the migration to more digitally native focus. Certainly we still play such a huge role from a direct mail side, many working with the largest banks, which are top customers. I think we’ll continue to see a disruptive wave come from AI and ultimately, it’s going to be really exciting for us. Certainly, there’s risks associated with AI that we don’t know what we don’t know about AI at this point, but there’s still just tremendous opportunity to use AI, to even think about the speed to revenue with AI and how it can reduce cycle times. We’re seeing such great productivity gains, 20 to 60% or more across development activities. I think we still, as I said a moment ago, we don’t know what we don’t know about AI, but it’s a really powerful opportunity for us to drive efficiencies, to drive productivity. And given our overall macroeconomic conditions, so many of our customers are worried about where every dollar is spent. I think it’ll allow us to really help manage some expense and work smarter, not harder.

Dustin Raney:

Yeah, I was going to say, speaking of that, because I know a lot of our listeners are obviously dialed in because we work in the marketing business, they’re marketers and marketers tend to get concerned when there’s a down economy, right?

John Watkins:

Absolutely.

Dustin Raney:

That wallets are tightening, interest rates are up, brands are trying to figure out what has to go, and a lot of times marketing’s the-

John Watkins:

Absolutely.

Dustin Raney:

… First on the chopping block, right? So being a data-driven marketing company, what are your thoughts? How can brands leverage data to actually generate efficiencies, or how do we actually help not just from a revenue perspective?

John Watkins:

Yeah, absolutely. I know that the CEO, CFO, CMO, COO, are all mindful of what they’re spending. When they want to spend, make the most efficient use of every dollar that they have, whether it’s around acquiring new customers, retaining their current customers, and really being mindful of the opportunity they have around AI. And certainly there’s risks associated with AI, with regulatory, bias, etc, that they’ve got to be very careful with. But I think again, we using the data and identity tools that we have and solutions available from Acxiom, can be a great partner with them and making sure that they’re leveraging their spend in a very fiduciary focused manner that still provide great outcomes and that value that Acxiom is known for delivering to clients, in such a way that they can minimize their spend, still have effective marketing to your point, retaining, because marketing is often the first thing that they look to cut, that continues to drive new customer acquisition as well as that retention that’s so important.

Kyle Hollaway:

Yeah. So tapping briefly into your role as COO.

John Watkins:

Sure.

Kyle Hollaway:

Massive amounts of change, speed, those two seem to be things that would probably give a COO some low heart palpitations.

John Watkins:

Absolutely.

Kyle Hollaway:

Right? What is your approach here at Acxiom in conjunction with things like AI and stuff on approaching that change at that speed?

John Watkins:

Yeah, so we want to be nimble and we want to do everything we can to move as quickly as we possibly can. We also have to be mindful that we have such a large team of people focused again on those values and outcomes for our clients. We want to conduct proof of concepts, we want to make sure we’re testing everything that we’re, again, that you, most of Acxiom, I believe has heard me say many times about how we measure everything that we do. We understand it, we look at the data, we’re data people and data is so powerful. So we just have to make sure that we’re doing it at the intersection of speed and being nimble, looking at the results that we’re getting, making sure that we aren’t moving too fast and ultimately, communicating. Making sure that we are communicating flawlessly, seamlessly with our associates, with our clients around those opportunities and those changes because we all understand that change can be disruptive and change can be hard.

Kyle Hollaway:

How do you feel like our clients are approaching that? Are you hearing from clients, go faster? Are you hearing, whoa, slow down, or?

John Watkins:

It’s a little of both, quite frankly. I think it could vary somewhat by industry. Some clients have a real desire and a thirst to run to AI as quickly as they can, to look at every solution that they host or that we host on their behalf and understand what those opportunities for productivity and efficiency gains are, and some are a little bit more standoffish. They want to make sure that they understand, again from a regulatory perspective, from a legal oversight and management perspective. So it’s a little of both at this time.

Dustin Raney:

So from a people, process, technology, AI is taking up all the hype cycle right now on the technology side.

John Watkins:

Sure.

Dustin Raney:

Do you feel like on the people side, these new technologies require new skills and coming in is, do you see a gap that needs to be closed and how do you suggest people maybe solve for that?

John Watkins:

Yeah, again, the simple thing would be to say, oh, go look at ChatGPT, but I’m a big believer that everybody needs a personal learning agenda. So whether you’re new to career developer that’s focused on getting your Snowflake certification, whether you’re somebody that’s been using SQL for many years, Oracle for many years, we all have to have that personal learning agenda and how we grow and evolve in our careers and provide more value to ourselves, our family. Make our skills more marketable, if you will, to our specific roles, and I think our clients are ultimately looking for that as well. Again, how do we advance our skills? How do we provide them more values and outcomes?

As I said during our opening session this morning, clients are always looking for values and outcomes, and we should be really focused on delivering those values and outcomes to make sure that, especially when I talk about one of our big clients, that when there’s a change in their leadership and they come in and say, how much value is Acxiom really providing us and how much value have they provided over the years? Making sure that we’re conducting those face-to-face meetings frequently. We’re talking about, it’s not just a sales pitch about this is the latest thing that we can do for you. It’s talking about, these are the number of IDs that we’ve appended over the last six months. This is the number of files, the transactions, this is the value, the number, the amount of quality uptime service we provided. Just making sure that clients always understand where we are in providing them value, but also the valuable skills that our team members provide, and then ultimately, even as we think about things like the great solution, Real ID, how that works and how it can be a great opportunity for them.

Kyle Hollaway:

So speaking of learning, we’re in an interesting flux where entire business segments are having to relearn or look at their value proposition differently. Let’s talk a little bit about third-party data.

John Watkins:

Sure.

Kyle Hollaway:

Had a long history and the value of third-party data. Now there’s a lot of at least discussion points around viability, long term, where’s third party data go? What’s your perspective on that?

John Watkins:

Yeah, I think third-party data has been extremely valuable and continues to be valuable. Certainly with all the talk and all everybody’s focused on cookie deprecation, what that really means for the future. And the truth be told at this point, I don’t know when it’s going away. We hear all sorts of different dates, we’ve heard those dates for the last several years, they continue to really be pushed out, but I do think that third-party data provides an incredible amount of value for us and our customers.

Dustin Raney:

Yeah, so that’s top of mind for when we talk about third-party data, I think a lot of people are concerned, it’s like, how I know, how can I trust-

John Watkins:

Sure.

Dustin Raney:

… That this data was ethically brought together? How does this industry help alleviate some of those concerns for people who are looking to try to solve, fill the gap with third-party data as cookies are going away?

John Watkins:

Yeah, I think one of the things that’s something that I’m so proud of from an overall Acxiom perspective is just our position and focus on privacy. Jordan Abbott is an incredible chief privacy officer. We spend so much time focused with different organizations, different congressional groups focused on privacy, focused on making sure that all of our data that we use on behalf of our clients is sourced in an ethically managed augmentation process, I guess is the best way to say it. And I feel very strongly that we’re, not, I want to say we’re doing everything we can to make sure that our ethical treatment of data and use of data is at the highest standard across the industry.

Dustin Raney:

Yeah, and at the end of the day, consumers want to know about new products and services that are relevant to them.

John Watkins:

Sure.

Dustin Raney:

So they are consenting to enable that, but it takes a provider, a graph to make that efficient and make it work. I think that’s sometimes a lot of the confusion. It’s like people are actually wanting marketing, they want to know about things that otherwise they wouldn’t know about. I know when I’m scrolling maybe on social media or I’m out in the open internet reading the news and I see a new cool product that I didn’t search for, but ultimately somehow it was figured out that I would have an affinity towards that. I feel like there’s just a tremendous amount of value to consumers in general with that, right?

John Watkins:

Yeah, I think there is a tremendous amount of value, and to your point, I don’t remember what the item was the other day, but just over the weekend I jumped online Saturday afternoon and something that I hadn’t searched for, but a really cool item came up. And it’s, are they reading my mind? Do they know what’s… How do they know that I’d be interested in that? And so I think there again, just all the different algorithms, the focus, understanding, even this morning, I love David Keene’s AI presentation around the different Personicx segments and specifically what those segments look like and it’s always interesting to understand those different segments.

Dustin Raney:

Yep.

Kyle Hollaway:

Yeah, so as we’re moving into the future, cookies, like you said, who knows? We assume they’re going to go away and everyone’s managing towards that. And within that then you’re starting to see a rise of retail media networks and certainly big tech continuing to, in a lot of people’s eyes, raising their walls. From being a key component of one of the large agency holding companies, how do you see us navigating that future where now you have a fragment, even a further fragmentation of these silos of consumer pockets?

John Watkins:

Yeah, I think we just have to be, again, we need to start with the privacy from a privacy perspective with everything. It’s going to be a very interesting time over the next few years. It could be later, it could be six months from now, it could be six years from now. It could possibly, they could possibly never go away. There’s just so many conflicting opinions and perspectives, which everybody needs to have their own perspective, but I think that time will ultimately tell, but we’re in for an interesting ride over the next couple of years.

Kyle Hollaway:

So we’ve covered quite a few different little things, if you’re to summarize some of it to a marketer that’s listening and saying, hey, over the next two to three years.

John Watkins:

Sure.

Kyle Hollaway:

Here’s a strategy for you. How would you position that?

John Watkins:

Yeah, I think I’d really focus on a couple of things. Number one is just being very mindful of the day-to-day changes with AI. The opportunity for those efficiencies, the opportunity for the productivity so that you can then reapply or refocus some of your spend to go faster, whether it’s around acquisition, retention, or whether it’s specific channels you’re interested in, moving away from, evolving into. I think those, that focus on AI, and again, that focus of ad tech at the intersection of media and creative using Acxiom’s rich data and identity products is a great opportunity for marketers.

Dustin Raney:

Do I have to do that in Snowflake?

John Watkins:

You do not have to do that. We like to provide solutions and we like to be able to use many different tools, be tool agnostic. Snowflake is a great tool and is an opportunity, but you don’t have to do it specifically in Snowflake.

Dustin Raney:

Yeah, yeah, and I think that ability to just intermediate honestly, all the disruption or all the different applications or platforms and take more control. I think one of the themes that we’re seeing brands try to do with their own data.

John Watkins:

Yeah, and even this new opportunity, we recently entered into strategic partnership with Adobe, using the suite of Adobe tools. Again, even using the GenAI tool again, it’s so powerful using Acxiom data, Acxiom technology for identity, partnering with Adobe around that intersection of media and creative. It’s going to be an incredibly powerful tool and we’re so fortunate to have a great partnership going with Adobe, but we do have other solutions as well.

Dustin Raney:

Yeah.

Kyle Hollaway:

I think that’s a great call-out, because yes, everyone’s really looking on that higher level function, which is like the AI, whether it’s GenAI or whatnot, but just don’t forget the data, right?

John Watkins:

Right, right.

Kyle Hollaway:

And we talked about it in a previous episode with Tammy Ammons about hallucinations and just good data is necessary for great AI.

John Watkins:

Absolutely.

Kyle Hollaway:

And that’s exciting that Acxiom is positioning itself right at the heart of that and foundational layer there, so.

John Watkins:

We ultimately always want to give our clients, Acxiom clients the greatest experience they can possibly have in working with us, and they want to do the same with their customers, and so at the foundation of all that is data. And for over 50 years, Acxiom’s been a global leading provider of data and hopefully we have 50 more years ahead of us.

Dustin Raney:

There you go.

Kyle Hollaway:

Awesome.

Dustin Raney:

I know we’re probably getting pretty close to wrapping up on time. I think we should do maybe a little lightning round thing, John, here.

John Watkins:

There you go.

Dustin Raney:

Maybe have some fun with it. John, your favorite job ever. Maybe let’s start with your first job.

John Watkins:

My first job was in the sixth grade stocking milk at a little neighborhood grocery, and I think I made like $2 an hour. It was great, it was owned by a family and it was fun, and it was a way to start really a great work ethic.

Dustin Raney:

Awesome.

Kyle Hollaway:

Tapping into this concept of AI, then just quick, if an AI was to assess John, what would be something that it would call out as being specific to you?

John Watkins:

Being excessively tall at 6’9″.

Kyle Hollaway:

There you go.

John Watkins:

I’m taller than your average bear, and so I think that’s the first thing it would identify.

Kyle Hollaway:

Yeah, it might be interesting to run you through some of the image AIs to see how you come out, you might be Slender man or something.

John Watkins:

Yes.

Dustin Raney:

With AI, next five to 10 years, do you have a dystopic perspective of where AI is taking us or a positive view on what the outcome is ultimately going to be?

John Watkins:

I tend to focus on the positive side of things, and I think we are up for an incredible transformation and journey using AI. As I think about the use of AI, and we’re sitting here in March of 2024, what is it going to look like in March of ’26? Truth be told, what’s it going to look like six months from now? But over the next couple of years, there certainly will be a transformative journey and it will be changing the way we work with our customers, the way we work with our own teams internally, but I think we are up for a considerable amount of change over the next few years.

Speaker 1:

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